Digital changes everything or it soon will. Rod Hochman joins us to discuss the digital transformation of healthcare.  A wide-ranging discussion on priorities, investments, and competition.

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Bill Russell:                   00:07               Welcome to this week in health it where we discussed the news information and emerging thought with leaders from across the healthcare industry. This is episode number 27. Today we get a CEO’s perspective on the digital transformation of healthcare. This podcast is brought to you by health lyrics. Are your strategies constrained by infrastructure or are you tied in a knot of applications? We’ve been in your shoes. We’ve been moving health systems to the cloud since 2010. Find out how to leverage cloud to new levels of efficiency and productivity. Visit [inaudible] dot com to schedule your free consultation. My name is Bill Russell, recovering healthcare cio, writer, an advisor with the previously mentioned health lyrics. Before I get to our guests and update our listener drive, we’ve exceeded 200 combined new subscribers between our youtube and podcast outlets, which means we’ve raised $2,000 for hope builders, which provides disadvantage to use life skills and job training needed to achieve and during personal professional success.

Bill Russell:                   01:01               I’ve hired their graduates and their stories are really nothing short of amazing. They’re very inspiring. We have six more weeks where our sponsor has agreed to give $1,000 for every additional hundred subscribers. Join us by subscribing today and be a part of giving someone a second chance. Uh, today’s guest is the president and CEO of Providence Saint Joseph Health, a faith based faith based, not for profit health and social services system with 111,000 caregivers in 50 hospitals. Eight hundred 29 clinics and, uh, someone I consider to be a digital health visionary today, Dr. Rod Hochman joins us. Good morning ride. Welcome to the show. You know, your, your bio is pretty awesome, but the show has a limited timeframe. So if you don’t mind, I’d like to condense it a little bit. Are you okay with that? Uh, so, so you’ve had leadership positions at Providence, Swedish, Sentara in Virginia, Health Alliance of Greater Cincinnati and Guthrie in Pennsylvania. A Rod has served as a clinical fellow in internal medicine at Harvard medical school and Dartmouth Medical School. In addition, he is a fellow at the American College of physicians and a fellow at the American College of rheumatology. He received his bachelor degrees and medical degrees from Boston University. Actually, my daughter is interested in bu and we’re heading up there in the fall for a visit. Is there anything I should know about bu before I head up there?

Rod Hochman:              02:28               Absolutely. I was just there on campus. I was actually at the medical school and the campus is growing like crazy and it is Boston University. I don’t go for it in any way I can help.

Bill Russell:                   02:47               Yeah. Why I am looking forward to anytime you get to visit Boston in the fall. It’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s a wonderful experience. So I’m looking forward to. We’re going to visit some, I don’t know, you know, your youngest daughter going to Boston or she wants to look at schools in New York City and Philadelphia. I mean these are big cities and I live on the other coast, so it’s A. Anyway,

Rod Hochman:              03:08               I’ll tell you, I know all three cities. I vote Boston pans down.

Bill Russell:                   03:14               Well, let’s see, so that there’s two other great sentences in your bio. So I’m, I’m going to touch on these. So under [inaudible] leadership, providence Saint Joseph health is transforming healthcare for the future through digital innovation, genomics, and scientific wellness, pophealth and outreach to the poor and vulnerable. In addition, mental health is a top priority for providence Saint Joseph Health, which is contributing $100,000,000 to establish an independent foundation focused on improving the mental health and wellness of communities. Uh, so let’s break that down a little bit. So, digital innovation, genomic scientific wellness, pophealth and outreach. Give us a high level on some of the things that you have going on right now at, at Providence, Saint Joseph Health, and in those areas,

Rod Hochman:              03:57               the belief that you know, the health system of the future, it’s going to have to look different than it is today. But there are certain areas that we felt we had to make a commitment to the two areas that have been slower to get the digital revolution that’s been higher ed and healthcare. And whether we like it or not, it’s here. And what we did, I think the smartest thing did about four years ago. We hired from Amazon for P, r, a chief of the digital informatics that handle this for us, and it was as much a cultural change as it flies to technological. You know, Aaron has a great diagram, but technology and people together with healthcare, people in the middle and you get magic because they both need each other whether they recognize it or not. And I think we recognize that four years ago that if you’re going to take this, you better put those folks together.

Rod Hochman:              04:56               So we’ve come to the realization that, you know, digital is the way healthcare is going to go. It’s the only way we get the scale. So we’ve been working in a whole bunch of mirrors which was or that job for the transformation of our system. The second area was we felt the largest health crisis. The United States. If you look at folks, about 40 percent of patients that we’ve seen have some primary or secondary mental health disorder. Then if we don’t get on top of this and we’re seeing this in the country as suicide rates out there, look at opioid epidemic. Really, if this was evil or something else, we can say, gosh, we have an epidemic that’s about it. So we felt as a health system have a stake in the ground. We’ve got to put our money where our mouth is and create this new organization to trust other people. Could us so that this isn’t just the providence St Joseph ethicacy national. We’ve got folks from all around the country for marine visit so people could see us creating solutions that will help. The word is, you know, we have the other revolution that we have.

Rod Hochman:              06:21               We have this intersection between biologic science and computational science and what that enables us to do is to explore new innovations in healthcare. But I started med school years ago, but it’s all about computational ability is our chief scientific officer at a combined with a md from Johns Hopkins. Really is this intersection between computational science and biologic science and has spent a good part of his career in the keynote. But now as the area of interest is what is it that are clues to why people stay well? So the term scientific wellness. So it’s the approach that if he can look at the characteristics of folks and figuring out what what they have and making us all living and raised in South Lake Union, bipolar, Amazon is really helped us transform our thinking about how we look at not just healthcare but health in general and how do we apply science to help them out. And then the last area is our institute, which looks at how do we look at, as we entered the latter stages of our life, we do that in a way that we all would want it. People want to pass through that and you know, our approach is that you don’t necessarily need a build assisted suicide. We think there’s another path and IRA byock spork in his area and it’s really a movement to other parts of alternative.

Rod Hochman:              08:23               Those are just some of the areas that we think are critical for else’s engaged in. And that’s where some of the features.

Bill Russell:                   08:35               That’s an awful lot and it’s really exciting. I know that, you know, the sisters and you and Deborah were so excited about the mental health initiative and it’s really exciting to see, uh, I mean not only providence St Joseph, but we’re seeing this really a couple of organizations across the country start to really step up in that area and maybe take the, uh, take the mantle of this. This is really an epidemic that needs to be addressed head on. Um, so let’s, let’s jump into, you know, for those of our listeners, we usually do in the new sound bites and, um, we do social media close. We’re gonna lose a social media close. We only have 45 minutes with, with Rod. So I’m going to spend more time on sound bites, a little bit on, in the news. So, so, right. Here’s what we usually do during this section. I toss out some questions, usually one to three minute answers. If you go longer than that, um, I’m not going to stop you. It’s more of a guideline than a rule. Uh, and from time to time, people throw questions back at me, I cannot guarantee answers. But it happens. So, so here we go. Um, uh, first question, how does a, how does the competitive landscape really change in healthcare with the emergence of digital technology?

Rod Hochman:              09:48               Digital health is that health systems that pat is heading for us, we take care of 13 million google here, how do we make that $20 million? You cannot be that having people visit your office technology, the digital tools, digital versus hands on. It’s digital, digital, being able to really improve our school and be able to get us out the places, whether it’s either through telehealth, health apps, it’s people having their own personal health record. So we think unless you have digital tools, you can’t take care of people.

Bill Russell:                   10:37               Yeah. But it’s also gonna bring in potentially a, some new competitor. So as we look at the new competitor and potentially partner landscape, a new things are emerging. So you have cvs, aetna, a jpm chase, uh, Amazon, optum, Devita and various other mergers, uh, coming, coming to bear. So, um, let’s take this from two perspectives. What challenges are those leaders, uh, with those new models going to face? Given how, how much of a physical plant is required for medicine at this point and how are these, these models going to change the traditional health system? Uh, providence, St Joe’s,

Rod Hochman:              11:22               if we use uber and Uber’s ability without a car, nor do they have plans on doing that. So I think we in healthcare building better watch out because, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a blockbuster analogy. It’s all of those ones that are out there, a bricks and mortar, I wouldn’t feel comfortable just sitting. So I think for the folks in healthcare partner, we have to have a digital solution. So it’s the equivalent of saying I’m just going to have my stores and sell my courses. I’m not going to go out and in the digital space. So I think that’s, that’s a threat and an opportunity for healthcare, but it’s not an elective then for smaller organizations depending on art.

Bill Russell:                   12:24               Yeah. So, um, you know, as we look at actually this, let’s change gears a little bit here. So, um, let’s, let’s take a look at the role of the consumer. So the consumer in today’s marketplace is very different than the consumer in previous years and what we’re seeing is a lot of health systems change their models. Um, I’ve had a cio on the, on the show who was talking about how they’re really taking apart the health system and now they have literally they’re taking the departments, they’re breaking out the big campus and you’re seeing them on street corners and, and all over the city. They’re making them more accessible, um, how, how is the consumer really dictating a, your next moves and your next steps in terms of how you make it more convenient, more accessible, really focus in on experience and outcomes.

Rod Hochman:              13:24               So when we look at our new strategic plan, which we put the consumer right, and we say, as a consumer, how do I want it? I want healthcare where I want. Sometimes it’s at home, sometimes it’s on my iphone, sometimes it’s in the office hospital. But that’s our whole focus. And I think that’s one of your things are Amazon, is they are completely consumed and they’re really teaching us how to do that. So we’ve shifted our focus to the patient, the consumer at the center, and that, that is for all of articular says, you said you’re a medicaid mom and Washington state, Microsoft executive or California. So we’re all in on the consumer side. Everything has to have that personal attention.

Bill Russell:                   14:39               So let’s, um, precision medicine. You mentioned, uh, uh, Dr Leroy, I’m heard ward Dr Lee Board a, your chief science officer. So precision medicine based on genomics holds great promise. We know that uh, this technology is really advancing pretty rapidly. Um, how does, how does your health system prepare for what really could be a radical change in the way care is delivered and received in the future?

Rod Hochman:              15:09               No, I think that’s why we hired early on we recognized we didn’t have that expert system. We’re also not an academic health system, but one that’s helping us shape the practical consideration

Bill Russell:                   15:23               of genome sequences that, you know, what’s interesting about this work,

Rod Hochman:              15:28               it’s not just about that, it’s about the bio, it’s about the laboratory data, dense data clouds together and figure out for Bill Russell, okay, what’s, what’s, what, what do you need to do next? And so we think we and his work, uh, at personalized health really helps us. Sequencing continues to spiral into. It’s almost available and ready for every a. You got to just figure out how to use effective both but also to feel well. And I think we put our, we put our chips on alphabets. Navigate through that.

Bill Russell:                   16:20               Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve done the ship, but I, I went down to a human longevity down in San Diego and I did the full battery, a genomic sequencing and, and the rest of the services that they offered, it was fascinating to me just how, uh, how much more precise they can be. And how much did they can say, you know, a, if you’re, if a physician prescribes you these medicines, you’re going to want to direct them in, in this direction instead of this direction. It’s amazing that when you treat them as treat people as just people as opposed to bill Russell, the individual, uh, the diagnosis could change. And the, the, the, the path, the treatment path, that could change pretty dramatically.

Rod Hochman:              17:07               Well, what we’re finding is that many medications that we prescribe and how do we know that right now it’s trial and error. I guess it’s not working and what we’re finding are there secrets which medicine works. Obviously the most obvious thing that we’ve been talking a lot about is how we’ve been overtreated with breast cancer and we kind of treated everyone the same cocktail for which best for this group, this treatment makes for this group. What is helping us do is create a lot of specificity. Tailoring treatment should do according to our work is just accelerating. My wife has seen a program similar to what you’ve experienced and she’s on the phone with the phone with her coach today. Go into all of her data, genomic data, figure out what you should be doing. And that is, that’s a whole different world in healthcare.

Bill Russell:                   18:30               I love the direction it’s going. So, um, you know, one of the things we probably don’t talk about enough on this, this show or in other context is just the cultural change that’s required. So digital requires significant cultural change. We saw a slow uptake and telehealth because it’s, it’s a new behavior and even though now we’re starting to see a significant rise in telehealth, it’s taken many years for that to happen. Ai requires acceptance within the health system as well. Uh, and there’s many other examples. Um, how does, how does a leader a lead cultural change that is, that is required to really accelerate the acceptance of these new technologies?

Rod Hochman:              19:13               That’s a great question because I think, I think we’re starting to see it’s moving a lot faster than it was even a. Tom Friedman in his book talks a lot about this kind of exploding on the curve of how fast you have to be able to move. So what I’ve been impressed with, I’ve noticed that what took longer, but if you don’t pay attention to the culture, you know, you and I both experienced that. If you’re not thinking about how the doctors just throw some technology at it or something, sometimes we just hit up against the wall, getting people to understand and adapt and change. And I think it’s this whole science of change management and there’s a lot of good work that’s been done in and I hit a tipping point and telehealth for sure. I think we’re starting to see some of the acceptance of telehealth and being on the screen. Tell us, tell us the truth is, it’s more than a one base, the with understanding what are the cultural issues and then, you know, it’s the same. There’s also cultural sensitivities, different groups, executive Washington versus someone who’s in La somewhere else. So it’s being aware of that.

Bill Russell:                   21:02               Yeah, we almost need to be a sociologist today to help people to really see and understand the change that’s, that’s that people are going through as we introduce technology. Um, so beyond, beyond the politics, because I don’t want to end up in a rabbit trail here. Um, how important is health care policy in the, in the delivery of a triple or quadruple aim cost quality patient and clinician experience for healthcare?

Rod Hochman:              21:32               Well, you know, I’d say it’s kind of like the markets we like consistency. So just, just tell us what the rules are. The same, you know, and I think whether it’s technology or privacy or all the issues that the it folks are dealing with, health care delivery folks are dealing with or the markets are dealing with what we really crave this consistency because then we’re very adaptable. But the problem is when the rules change constantly, we’re not quite sure where we are and I think that’s, if you put it down, that’s probably the greatest frustration. We had a, you know, now we’re going to see a whole spate of change in privacy laws and in southern California and that’s off a whole sequence of different ways that we need to think about healthcare informatics standpoint. What do we do with that? Uh, you know, the rules are changing whether it’s 3:40 b drug pricing or something else.

Rod Hochman:              22:29               So I’d say the biggest challenge that we have with policy is inconsistency. And I wish sometimes policy makers and what I feel my comment and policymakers policymakers and stifle innovation. One of the great things about the United States is that great innovators, but you got to get out of our way a little bit. Okay. Tell me what I need to get to, but don’t tell me how to do it and that’s what makes us great. I think in this country we’ve got some incredibly bright and just be able to do it. We’ll figure it out, but don’t micromanage us with policy. I won’t talk about lawyers and people in Washington, but you know, kind of what we need are set what you want the goals to be, but let us innovate public private partnerships that we can do and I think we’re starting to see that different companies or technology companies, healthcare organizations working together, that’s where we’re going to make real progress.

Bill Russell:                   23:31               So consistency. We’re looking for consistency and policy. Well, I think as long as we have a democracy where that’s what we’re going to have inconsistent inconsistency for awhile, but you know, uh, Dr John was on, we’ve talked about this and it was, he said almost the exact same thing. He said, you know, we, we started meaningful use, started out in one direction and then everyone took it as their policy lever and they started adding to it. And specifically the thing he said is they started to tell everyone how, so this is how you have to do this and how you have to do this. And quite frankly, how you do it in Washington might be different than how you do it in Lubbock, might be different than how you do it in Topeka. Kansas. So becomes, becomes very hard for health systems to keep responding to that. At least I’m, uh, innovate and not drive costs through the, through the roof. Uh, I did. I did prior to this ask, uh, uh, one of your peers for a question. And, uh, he, he wanted me to ask you about artificial intelligence there. Um, there are so many different places that we can utilize ai. How, how are you going to determine what area you’re going to focus in on? So I guess it’s really true of any emerging technology, but how do you prioritize your technology investments?

Rod Hochman:              24:49               Right, right. Because otherwise it can get lost. So every day when I go to one of these conferences is a hundred and 50 new companies that probably won’t be next year. Hadn’t figured that out. So our approach to that, it’s been a fun which we evaluate emerging companies that like to be investors and users at the same time. So I think that’s a, that’s a good way to kind of put in charge just looking through technology and sorting through it because we shouldn’t be divided up the different approach that I had the opportunity with Microsoft and they talk a lot about ai, how to apply it and then also what are the ethics that are involved with. So with that I’m looking at a partner at Microsoft, sorted out the technology politics and look at it from a standpoint what are our problems were kind of solve then one of the best solutions. But recognizing that we’re going to probably need some help.

Bill Russell:                   26:35               So one of the things you did is you split out innovation from it. I mean you haven’t split innovation. Innovation is across the entire clinical innovation is innovation. But you do have a, a, a group led by Aaron Martin and you have your Ip that’s separate. And we’ve seen a lot of these models and even some newer emerging models where you have a chief transformation officer is now sort of a thing that’s out there. Um, I guess the question is, do you do that because of this thing because there’s so many emerging technologies and so many partners to evaluate and so many, um, and, and, and you want to sort of introduce new ideas to the organization and there’s this, is this really something that’s a, a, a, any health system of any size or is this because of your scale that you’ve split these things out?

Rod Hochman:              27:27               I think it’s just a great principal. I think what’s happened in the past, it’s got crushed out by the rest of the organization. We’ve seen other models in other industries where the core business just crushes outfit new idea. We’ve got a separate it, we’ve got to fund it. And the direct support and I think those are key words the CEO has to believe in. It has to be funded and it can’t be allowed to. Subserving perdition, mainline court business, which for us is our hospitals or clinics are out there. So I think that’s really important. I think every organization who’s your art, you can’t hire someone like Aaron, but maybe you can get together with some other partners. So I don’t get off the hook, just smaller, just have to figure out a way to do some of that is through partnerships, collaborations. We’ve had a lot of smaller places. We are partners both on technology on it, but that’s the model for the future. But I don’t think he gets off the hook on having to make sure that they have preservation organizations.

Bill Russell:                   29:02               I was asked on a panel who led the digital initiatives at a, at a health system, and my answer was the CEO and no exceptions. I think the CEO has to be the leader because digital strategy, your strategy today, there’s, there’s really no separating that. Um, all right, well let’s, let’s move to in the news. So perhaps this is old news to some, uh, the non merger with ascension, uh, the merger would have created something in the scope of 200 plus hospitals, 30 some odd states that the scales really breathtaking, uh, in, in the end you said the time he wasn’t dry. I guess there’s two questions. The first being the obvious one, uh, tell us about the decision and then the second question being, do you think we’re going to continue to see more mergers in healthcare? A traditional and nontraditional, and just elaborate on that a little bit.

Rod Hochman:              29:59               First of very, very close to their CEO. And we went right down to the wire. I think what we both stepped back on was that we both had a lot of initiatives, both that essentially in providence that needed to be taken care of and you know, all of merger mergers or about time and we both felt that we needed to take a pause and Kinda think about what both organizations are doing a lot on her plate. You know, our, our agenda. Does it only had a similar agenda and you just felt timely wasn’t just that. It would almost be too much of a distraction for both. And we both decided we liked everything we saw, still think the fundamental for 100 percent correct about creating scale, but also the, but that the timing was right now. Uh, but I, I think we’re going to continue to see advocate come together as Chi dignity, health nursing is an addict.

Rod Hochman:              31:14               I think we’re going to continue to see that organization scale, but they also need to lower their operating costs and there are mergers should not have done the right way. They are going to be incredibly helpful as we go forward. So I think we’re gonna continue to see this, uh, I think the providers sectors can I continue to see less embarrassment and I think organizations are going to better the second alternative mergers, which are, you know, sometimes with inventory nightmares and all the parents are now creating coalitions around certain things, whether it’s data. And recently, you know, we’re part of the initiative, the Eric with Microsoft, with Intermountain, uh, ssm, St Providence, Saint Joseph Trinity of all comes together and said, look, I think they’re going to see more of that organizations come together, collective creative, do something, we’re going to get really serious about that because that’s the only way to see both. And then you’ll see some nontraditional partnerships. And you mentioned a couple of things that are out there in order to kind of put position yourselves in the market.

Bill Russell:                   33:05               I’m going to reference a healthcare leaders article. Um, you, you said we’re deconstructing the traditional health system. We have built a, we’ve been built around large hospitals. That’s an old version of a successful health system or student will be our new plan. Makes us more digital, more ambulatory and there’s less emphasis on the hospital. Has the core. And this goes back to something we talked about earlier where, you know, you have health systems that have really pushed out into the community. They’ve deconstructed, uh, their, their buildings and really quick, you know, labor and delivery, they put these really facilities all over the city. Um, but I don’t, this isn’t the end of deconstruction is it? I mean digital technologies, the consumer revolution, new paradigms for delivery of care. Um, we’re going to see much more deconstruction moving forward. How do you see that playing out

Rod Hochman:              33:58               way for us to compete in the market that we’re in? How do you compete against a natural national indoors towards surgery company? Well, every inventory, surgery center, the habits, one of the hospital, you’re not going to be competitive. So what we’ve said is that we’ve got to bring all of those units. The ambulatory flow. Seventh state then allows us to function as a business to an acute care facility, care facility. They work, they’ve got to get streamlined, better, smarter, faster as well, but they need to concentrate on, in those facilities, the medical group function as a medical thing. That’s a different type of delivery of care that has a digital arm to it, but it also has to be much more for. So really taking part. Then the other thing for Providence, St Joseph has also become a services company. We’re taking a page out of it. We’ve got to optimize providence St Joseph, so we, in addition to our scale after become a services company to other medical groups, to other hospitals and they’re supplying to other hospitals that we don’t own work. I think we’re going to have to figure out ways to produce revenue other than direct patient care.

Bill Russell:                   35:40               That makes perfect sense. So, uh, so we’re coming to the end of our time, but I wanted to cover one last topic and that’s data with you and there’s a handful of ways I want to talk about this. Um, you’ve talked about the power of data in healthcare and how it can have a meaningful impact on, on outcomes in many other things. Uh, we, uh, uh, we really have a ton of data within healthcare already. Uh, so let’s talk about ownership of that data, scope of that data privacy. So let’s start with the first question, which is, um, uh, who do you, who do you think owns the medical record or who should own the medical record and how will that change the way we view data and use data moving? Yeah.

Rod Hochman:              36:23               No, I think ultimately that’s almost a given. The question is who do they get proxy to, who they trust and uh, unfortunately had some bad examples out with social media. Then, you know, I think in healthcare we always considered the sanctity of data and regular so we protect that incredibly well. So what I hope is that individuals have control over their data, but I hope they will trust their health organization to be that trusted partner with them. Then figure out how that Eric and I would not be as great at saying move to some of the other organization that I just think that one of the advantages that we have in the sector of Vr is that our patients and our form is still us and we have a relationship with. So that’s the way I would see that not working. Then the question is, is head of pensions and also in a way that you know, as, as you know, we’re, we’re a public company. Our interest is the health of our patients. So we see ourselves being able to use that data to advance that not necessarily going to shareholder value.

Bill Russell:                   38:05               It’s interesting, we may need to develop some new skills, some new capabilities. So the data question to me always delves into the scope of, uh, you know, the other data that’s out there because we know that the clinical data and the claims data tell a certain side of the story, but social determinants tells us so much more. Um, and you know, as social, as, as healthcare providers are, should we be,

Bill Russell:                   38:36               uh, on behalf of our patients, on behalf of the community, starting to talk to them about providing us their, their facebook data and their google search data and their Amazon data because we know that when you combine those things, you can have more of an impact on their health outcome. Given that, you know, they gave us proxy, they trust us. We have clinical and data experts. We’re looking at it and putting together a whole picture of health. Do you think that’s in the future or do you think that’s a little too out there at this point?

Rod Hochman:              39:08               Social determinants of health. Recognizing that the biggest determinants or education, housing, food, you know, those things have far more effect on your health than your genome. So those are critical aspects of how we keep people healthy. I think it’s going to be essential at Providence Saint Joseph just housing Washington. So we’d been in housing, we’re University of Montana. We recognize how important those elements are. I think capturing those elements are going to be essential for providing health. We’re particularly seeing that as we look at taking care of patients that data that’s more useful to us. So I think it’s critical. I see. I see it coming. I hope that our patients will trust us as a trusted source.

Rod Hochman:              40:16               So my answer is yes and I think it’ll happen sooner than you think, but it’s going to have to happen in a way that people feel secure. That I think that I’ve read about recently. I think that’s unfortunate way of how we care for people and we’ve experienced some of this around mental health data at one of the problems that we have and taking care of patients like black box, around mental health information that when someone shows up in the emergency room, unable to get that, but I think people are always reticent about out there and not in a strictly from this. That.

Bill Russell:                   41:07               Right. I just want to, I want to thank you for coming on the show. Uh, I always enjoy our conversations. Um, what’s, uh, what’s the best way for people to follow you? I always ask this question at the end of the show, do you have a, do you have a blog that you. Because a, your fulltime job isn’t enough.

Rod Hochman:              41:27               I have some of the greatest people that work for me and they really, uh, able to kind of get messaging after me, but I think the best way is just wrong. Hot Rod, h o c h m a n a m d dot Org. And that has most of the board I’m thinking about on a, on a regular basis out there. So it’s, it’s fun and I love hearing from folks and getting your ideas. I mean, I, I would say that the two way exchange really helps. I find that from our caregivers and from everyone else, it’s great that your folks come and where we’re willing to put ourselves out there and, but we’re also willing to Kinda hear some people have a different take on it with what they’re thinking so that, that’d be great. I’d love to hear from you.

Bill Russell:                   42:13               And so you can also, you can follow me at the patient cio and twitter health Erik’s website. Uh, you can follow the [email protected] a catch the videos on the youtube channel this week can help [inaudible] dot com slash video. Please come back every Friday for more news, information and commentary from industry influencers. That’s all for now. Thanks Rod.

Speaker 3:                    42:38               Really appreciate it.


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