This Week Drex Deford joins us to discuss where Amazon fits best into healthcare. Why the SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch matters to healthcare IT and how “Culture Eats Strategy for Breakfast” and wins Super Bowls.
Please follow the show on Itunes, Google Play and Stitcher
Follow This Week in Health IT on Twitter @ThisWeekinHIT
Take a look at the website www.thisweekinhealthit.com
Follow Bill Russell on LinkedIn and Twitter
Reach out to [email protected] if you want to discuss your next project.
Transcription added for Keywords, This comes straight from Machine algorithms. As we all know, these aren’t that great yet. This is not meant to be a representation of the actual conversation. Please listen to the podcast.
Bill Russell: 00:13 Welcome to this week in health it where we discussed the news information emerging thought leaders from across the healthcare industry. It’s Friday, February nine this week, and Amazon hospitals. Space x captures the imagination and culture wins the super bowl. This podcast is brought to you by health lyrics, a leader in digital transformation in healthcare. This is episode number five. My name is Bill Russell, recovering healthcare cio, writer and consultant with the previously mentioned health lyrics. Today I’m joined by direct for direct’s. Wow. What a longer bio. So I’ll go ahead and read some of these things.
Bill Russell: 00:50 Drexel has a long career as a healthcare executive, including experiences a cofounder of next wave connect, a cio at steward health care in Boston, Seattle children’s in Seattle obviously, and also scripps health care in San Diego. Prior to that, he spent 20 years in the air force where he served as a regional cio, medical center cio, chief technology officer for the UAE, USF health systems worldwide operations. Uh, he’s also served on the national board past chair of Chime and in the foundation he currently serves as a board director for synergistic, a security consulting firm. Uh, now you recovering cio will have to argue who gets to to hold that title, but a direct spends, the hip spends his time bringing together trusted health systems, payers, associations, vendors, and investors to solve healthcare’s toughest problems as president of his home own healthcare practice, direct CEO digital health. Good morning and welcome to the show.
Drex DeFord: 01:55 That is a very long introduction.
Bill Russell: 01:58 You know, I, I tried to pare it down, but it’s all relevant. I mean, you’ve been a cio at a bunch of very, a great system, so you’ve, you know, obviously done some great work with and uh, and the stuff you’re doing now have really a networking and bringing these teams together is important to the industry. Uh, as we, as we try to innovate and solve some of these problems. So, uh, with that as the backdrop, what question we ask everybody who comes on the show is, what are you working on now? Or what are you really excited about? Uh, at the moment,
Drex DeFord: 02:30 yeah, I, um, I mean I guess I would start off by saying a, that’s a long intro and um, it probably tells you two things. I guess one of them is that I’m a, I’m old.
Drex DeFord: 02:46 Exactly. And the other one is that apparently I have a really hard time holding the job. So, um, but those things may be true. Uh, I’m, I’m working on a bunch of different stuff right now. I do a, I do work because as you in the intro, I do work with health systems and vendors and startups and VC firms and lots of others. But right now kind of the most interesting stuff that I’m working on is with the health system around some strategic planning and leading initiatives. I’m a big fan of lean. I lived in Japan for three and a half years. I’ve been back to spend time with a Toyota Yamaha piano and, and I’m really into a lean and it and lean in healthcare in general. And uh, and, and then I’m involved in a bunch of different startups who are working kind of on their own ways to disrupt healthcare. And being from Seattle, I’m happy the days are getting longer, which means that on the days that I’m home, I get to spend more time in the cascades and the Olympic mountain ranges hiking and uh, what else? Oh, Cha chime and hymns are coming up. And so it’s always nice to see 45,000 of my closest friends. Uh, and that’s happened in here in a couple of weeks. So excited about that too.
Bill Russell: 03:57 Yeah. I’m looking forward to that event. It sounds like you have designed your work around your life now instead of your life around work and uh, that’s something we all aspire to
Drex DeFord: 04:13 that, that that’s actually been a really huge, a huge part of how arrived to the that I am in my life right now. I’m, a lot of it has been driven by a particular thing or particular things that I want to do in my life and I’m trying to arrange my work that in a way that allows that to happen.
Bill Russell: 04:35 Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure a lot of people listening to this going, well that’s, that’s great. Wonderful. We’ll do that as a topic for a future. You talked about how some people can take steps in that direction. Alright, let’s get. Let’s get to the news because a lot’s happened this week. Well, a lot’s happened this week period. Um, so, uh, here’s what happened. Each slice of the story to discuss and I’ll kick it off with a, with my story space x launch the world’s most powerful rocket. Uh, so what’s next though? This is an article from space.com and I think we both shared just a love and a fascination for, uh, for uh, uh, the space, a space exploration and those kinds of things. And I wanted to share this story because I think it’s relevant to healthcare. But let me recap the story first. It’s a space in case you her.
Bill Russell: 05:33 Somehow I missed this space as x, launched a falcon heavy rocket this past week. Uh, it exceeds the largest spacecraft in capacity in terms of lift capacity by two x and reduce the cost by a third of, for roughly $300 plus million to its nearest competitor to about $100 million. So double the capacity, third of the cost, uh, were able to, uh, to recover, to have the uh, uh, the spent fuel a cylinders, they had precision side-by-side landings that had great photos of that on that is, yeah, that is a technology, uh, it’s a feat. It’s amazing that they’ve done that. They then launched into an orbit that extends out to the asteroid belt. This was actually one of the things that they overshot, uh, beyond the, the, the Mars, the Mars orbit that the trajectory that they were going for, but not a bad thing. And what it shows is essentially without refueling or whatnot, they can, they can actually take these loads.
Bill Russell: 06:38 Um, has elon musk is actually quoted as saying we can without refueling, we could take something out to pluto if we needed to. Um, and, you know, and in true fashion, they did it in style. They placed a mosques read Tesla roadster in the cargo with a mannequin named storm in a, in a space x space suit that played the corresponding song by David Bowie, thus completing the world’s most expensive car commercial. Um, but man, did they get some, some phenomenal pictures and there’s a, uh, there’s a whole feed first and it’s some of those pictures of, of the roadster with a, with him, with the, uh, the, uh, don’t panic. Uh, the, the, uh, shout out to the Douglas Adams a trilogy there as well. So, uh, here’s, here’s why I think this is relevant to healthcare besides, I mean, we could talk about Ilan mosque and innovation and those kinds of things, but we are in that kind of golden age of healthcare as well where anything is really possible.
Bill Russell: 07:47 You, if you’ve ever heard ray Kurzweil’s speak about some of this stuff, he’s talking about a future where, uh, you know, precision medicine is, is, is, is, um, an amazing, um, uh, advancement for us where we are predicting things where we are doing a preventative, uh, procedures really with a nanotechnology and, and those kinds of things. And we should be, as CEOS, we should be celebrating these kinds of advancements. When we see, uh, when we see these new technologies and these innovators and we have these conversations, we should figure out ways to be a part of helping them to experiment, helping them to be able to create environments where they can move these things forward and, and just see what’s possible and keep introducing, uh, the, the, the, what’s possible to our, to our staff and to the people that are out there because this, this will be over the next five years or so. I think it’s universally accepted that this is going to be a fun time within healthcare to see some really great advancements, almost like we’ve seen in commercial spacecrafts over the last couple of years. I’m curious what your, you know, as you see this, this does capture the imagination, but what are some of your thoughts as you sort of replay the events of the past week?
Drex DeFord: 09:07 Yeah, that’s super exciting. I’m getting a little echo, but um, okay. Uh, has been super exciting. I was a space nerd as a kid. I’ve followed the Apollo missions when, uh, when I was in elementary school and, and uh, they’ve launched from 39 82, which I thought was pretty awesome. A sort of such a historical kind of landmark camp down in Florida. And uh, there are, there are a ton of lessons. I think one of the real lessons, you know, he started this whole program with some really big ideas that I think even the most avid space fans thought we’re on the verge of being ridiculous. Things like being able to land reusable rockets packet to launch side. And uh, and musk went out and he made a big commitment and he screwed up several times and things exploded. Any, you know, just kept at it, nose to the grindstone and Yep, you know, written on the troops and he had this relentless faith that it could be done and that mistakes were okay as long as the team learned from them and he started landing these rockets and doing recovery and turning them around and launching that again.
Drex DeFord: 10:15 And, uh, after a while, I think any of the problems that they faced when they happen, they weren’t really a disaster. Uh, they were viewed kind of as opportunities for success or lesson to learn. And, and, uh, I think he kept the faith and the team kept the faith and the fans kind of watching this from the outside kept the faith that he, he’d, uh, he’d ultimately, when he sort of drags everybody up off the floor and he dust them off and uh, he sheds the disappointment and they keep moving forward. So, and a lot of ways, that’s why Falcon heavy with such a big deal. We had low expectations, but we kind of all came into it in the context. Yep, this thing doesn’t work well, we know he’s not going to quit and he’s going to gather data and he’s going to learn from the problem and he’s going to continue to inspire everyone.
Drex DeFord: 11:04 Uh, so, so, I mean, in some ways too, I would say, not to get too political, but the government shutting down and all of that we used to look to. And a big hairy audacious goals driving government programs, space and exploration, and we used to look at our political leaders for inspiration and pride in this case were all written for this crazy South African to get us back to resupply the international space station and ultimately even taken astronauts to the International Space Station and the moon and Mars and beyond. So it’s, it’s quite a story and there are a lot of lessons in there in leadership and management and innovation and all of that.
Bill Russell: 11:49 Yeah. When you look at, there’s a couple of things. One is, uh, and you, you sort of hit on this, you know, the first couple of times at space x tried to launch a rocket. They, uh, both failed and then really they had to, he had to leverage his future to, uh, to get that third one. And that’s why we know space x today, if that third one had failed, you know, he’s on record as saying that we wouldn’t be here talking about space x today, more than likely. Uh, the other thing you love, love about him is the, uh, yeah, it is. He really does lead with vision and it’s not space x being the most profitable or the biggest or the best. He’s leading with the Simon Sinek. Why kind of thing of, you know, we, we, we want to, we want to explore, we want to, we want to colonize Mars and we want to do that because we want to make the human race more than a single planet,
Bill Russell: 12:46 a species that we can ensure our existence regardless of what happens to this planet, that the human race will be out there. And when he speaks in those terms, I think those of us who, uh, who grew, who grew up, you know, looking at the Apollo missions, wishing that we were still there while we were doing these, uh, you know, I don’t know what to call them, but these, a shuttle missions that were just sorta looping around the earth instead of really activating our imagination. This, this really has, has brought us back to a mission. We can all celebrate and get, get excited around. So anyway, I think, I think you hit it, hit it on the head. I mean, there’s, this is a great cultural piece for us around how do you, how do you create that, that a environment within your it organization where people identify problems that they’re inspired to dream and they take chances and sometimes they fail and that’s a success in that you move forward and sometimes they succeed and that’s also obviously moving us forward. So exciting time for the space program. Exciting time in healthcare. So I’m going to kick it to you and, and uh, for, for you to give us context for your story.
Drex DeFord: 13:58 Yeah, sure. My story comes from a website called the medical futurist and a, it’s called a lot of Amazon ran hospitals. So probably a good place to start in all of this is to say, oh, and don’t forget basis. And Amazon have their own space program too. It’s called blue origins. So in a lot of ways a dreamers like musk and have a, have a lot in common. The story that’s a that’s on the side is a pretty interesting kind of a fun story. I stay on top of the Amazon discussions and the kind of super secret at 1492 healthcare projects and since I live here in Seattle, there’s a regular drum beat here about Amazon getting deeper into healthcare and maybe even buying a hospital, a kind of into the underground of the city here. We talk about that quite a bit and that’s obviously been rubbed up of course by the JP Morgan Amazon Berkshire announcement that happened a couple of weeks ago.
Drex DeFord: 15:02 This guy, this article really sorta takes that to the next stage and talks about some interesting scenarios. So everything from supply chain disruption to selling prescription drugs directly to consumers at a discount to opening drugstores in the whole food chain. Um, it, it talks about drones and health care and surgical robots and three d printing of medical devices and things like splints and casts, but even things like drugs and how you could use it, use that technology to, uh, make pills, for example, shaped like dinosaurs to make it easier to get kids to take their medicines. And of course it talks a lot about artificial intelligence and for physician leaders, how to leverage the tech knowhow that Amazon has to sort of drive a reduction in administrative burden. So, so that’s good. And uh, I think in the end, the upper talks about, you know, it’s not all pros, there’s definitely some downsides.
Drex DeFord: 16:02 And as a cio, I think we’re all probably a little jaded. I mean, we, we love the idea of someone getting in and really disrupting healthcare, but, you know, at the same time Microsoft has been all in and then out of healthcare, seriously, uh, at least a couple of times google made a big push with a personal health records and fizzled. And I think all those companies have kind of learned from that, you know, health care super complicated and super regulated and there was a lot of unwritten rules and every health system in every market operates differently. So there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of things to sort of think about in this article. And it is a really fun article to sort of think about how, how healthcare could change in how it could look different if somebody like Amazon really got into the delivery business. I’m reflecting back on that to the space story. Uh, uh, I think most of the space industry, most of those big companies, general dynamics and the Russians and the French government and everyone else, I think they had to at least have been a little bit surprised that some guy from South Africa came in and really has sort of changed how, um, space may work. And, and I think in a lot of ways healthcare’s looking around, but the outside wondering if somebody’s going to come in and disrupt, disrupt healthcare in the same way.
Bill Russell: 17:30 That’s an interesting point. We’ll, we’ll disruption coming from within or I’ve posted two stories about this and the responses are always interesting to me is it does range from, you’re welcome Amazon to the game to a, some others that are essentially saying, yeah, we’ve heard all this before. As you said, you know, Microsoft was all in, Google was all in. Now they’re sort of in a apple, keeps tiptoeing in and doesn’t really get a all the way in. We haven’t seen facebook really or some of the others get, get in here yet, but Amazon is uh, an interesting play to me because I think it’s, I think what we’re asking for when we hope that Amazon gets in is a consumer grade experience within healthcare, right? So Amazon has a way of making transactions easy to make a frictionless, to make them a something that is, it is much more convenient to the, to the user.
Bill Russell: 18:31 And we, we all the. I mean as, as health within the industry, that’s what we’re striving for. But you have to know also that because if you’ve gone to any dinner parties, if you have any family conversations over Thanksgiving and you say, I’m in healthcare, you invariably get the story where they go, Oh, let me tell you my Nigga, you know, I had the same test three times. And then this doctor and I got passed over here. I got the same questions. I got handed the clipboard again. We get all those things and we’ve been striving to really knock those down. One of the time, our hope is that Amazon has somehow as a magic bullet for this, I don’t think there is a magic bullet, but I think Amazon has some unique assets and a unique perspective. They do not try to. They’re not going to try to reinvent the hospital.
Bill Russell: 19:19 I’d let me rephrase it. They’re not going to try to run a hospital better. They are literally going to try to reinvent healthcare, are about establishing new ways of doing things, new ways of thinking about things and so them actually buying a hospital and running a hospital. That’s. I think that’s pretty far fetched. I do think they, the Amazon Berkshire announcement and a JP Morgan is fascinating to me because I think they’re looking at it a little different saying, how can we, how can we, what part of this can we take on and make it more consumer centric where we can bring the best that we have to offer and really move it forward. And, uh, you know, it’s important to note this article doesn’t make any case for, for Amazon, uh, being in there. In fact, I read this quote because I think it’s interesting, but healthcare should not.
Bill Russell: 20:13 A healthcare should not be pure business, medical evidence, empathy and caregivers dedicated to their jobs make healthcare unique. And I think that’s a, I think that’s really true. And that’s what we hear when people, the push back we hear from people is it’s a lot harder than what Amazon thinks. What they’re really saying is that there’s a lot more people aspect to it. You’re not just going to do a transaction over your phone or online and there’s, there’s the whole person that we have to really care for. I’ll let you close this one up since it was your story. Oh, I know. I think you’re right on money. There’s a
Drex DeFord: 20:49 no. If there’s one piece of it that I look at that I know we struggle with as we make this transition from fee for service to value based care. It’s patient engagement. How do we really engage the patient and get them involved and keep them involved on a daily basis in creating an environment and identifying problems in their environment that ultimately keep them from being healthy and living healthily. And uh, and in some ways, Amazon has sort of figured out a not sort of figured out, they have really figured out how to do customer engagement and make, as you said about this, you said, make that experience really frictionless and easy to do and easy to understand and not a problem and not something else and different that I have to do something that works with the way I work and live in my daily life. And if we could just bring that kind of skill and that kind of capability into healthcare, uh, that might be a huge advancement in how we provide care as we move into the future. So I’m excited about folks from the outside. I think there are a lot of great lessons to be learned from the outside and I know healthcare is complicated and we do have our own way of doing things, but um, maybe some of that needs to be broken and we need to leave the broken glass on the floor after that happened.
Bill Russell: 22:15 Right?
Bill Russell: 22:16 Right. Well, alright, so great stories and we went a little long on that. So we’re going to try to package up culture and about five minutes or less, I should be no problem at all. So in our second segment, we typically talk about leadership or an emerging technology. This week I want to talk about about culture. You’ve written a couple of really good pieces. Uh, I, I reposts it, a piece from my executive coach on the Philadelphia Eagles win in the superbowl and I’ll just give you two quotes from that to try to shorten this up. So he closes with this statement. Tom Brady threw for over 500 yards. The Patriots never punted the entire game. He’s the best quarterback to ever play the game, but this year the impressive numbers didn’t matter. He couldn’t be culture. And he goes on in that you can check out that story on health.
Bill Russell: 23:05 Eric’s a blog site. He goes on to talk about the things that made them distinct going forward. On fourth down was not an anomaly. Uh, when the coach said he really believed in the team, he believed in the team, even on fourth down, even in the superbowl and, and those kinds of things really make a culture. And then the other quote he throws out, which we all know and we’ve all, uh, we’ve all quoted many times, which is Peter Drucker’s quote, culture eats strategy for breakfast every day. So, I, you know, as we, as we jump into this, I just wanted to, um, you know, you’ve been a part of some great cultures. You’ve built some good cultures, you’ve, uh, you’ve seen some great. What are some of the, what are some of the characteristics of some of these cultures and what are some of the cultures that, that you’ve been a part of that, that you would highlight some of what makes them great?
Drex DeFord: 23:56 Yeah. First of all, I have to say, I watched some of the parade yesterday and I don’t know if you saw Brian Kelsey, the center’s a speech yesterday during the celebration, but he calls out virtually every person on the team and how the critics early in the season said they weren’t good enough. They weren’t fast enough, they didn’t have good hands, they couldn’t play defense, the most terrible coaching decision ever made and all of those things. And then he refers to something that will end up trading. Trending as a, as a Hashtag last night he talks about how hungry dogs run faster. And uh, I, I think, you know, the article that you posted and the idea behind it is, uh, is just right on the money. This idea that hungry dogs run fast when they wanted it more, uh, they were starving for it, not just the team but on behalf of the city.
Drex DeFord: 24:47 So it was a really good story. And I think that this idea that culture eats strategy, you know, continues to be really sound. It’s not the easiest thing in the world to build or change culture. Um, I’m in the process of writing a linkedin article series right now with a friend of mine, Chris Berman. Yeah. Uh, I think a lot of this culture change starts with the concept of empathy. You have to be able to understand and relate well to others on the team. Uh, if you’re really going to affect change and then if you have a true north and you talk about it and you’re transparent in your actions and you expect the same of the team, ultimately you build trust and that’s the kind of culture you want. A not really blind trust. Although you made me that sometimes in emergencies, but I’m the kind of trust that makes you vulnerable as a leader and also appreciated and respected.
Drex DeFord: 25:38 And you know, I’ve worked with some great folks. I came to Seattle children’s because it was a loop, you know, lean as a culture, a based organization. And it had some, some great people here. Tom Hanson at the time was the CEO and Pat Hagen who is the president and lease a brand new bird who’s now the CEO at University of Washington. All had really great ways of helping people understand where they wanted to go and what they needed from them and gave them guide rails and let them go out and do their work. So, um, and the other thing, of course, I think culture wise, I’d have to call the air force service service integrity excellence is kind of the motto of the Air Force is still a personal motto. It’s the way I do business. It’s kind of the way I lived my life. And um, last thing I would say about this is I think it’s hard to be a different person at work than you are at home. It’s simpler if you kind of tell the truth and work hard and try to make everything you do a better. But if you’ve got that kind of leader and those kinds of teammates you wind up with really culture.
Bill Russell: 26:45 And that’s the role of the cio within their department, is to foster that culture obviously within the context of a larger culture. And I’ll just highlight a couple of the things from this article that, uh, that I repost from Bob Perkins. You know, the, the, you mentioned this, you know, that the leader has to be consistent, you know, all the time and it’s consistent in their personal life as well as their business life. They have to, you know, have, have confidence, have confidence in their team and, and, and be able to speak, to encourage someone else to speak courage into them and you as a, as a cio, you have to, you have to speak courage into people and, and, and, and show your confidence in them knowing that they can make mistakes. You in fact would like them to make mistakes. Uh, and as we’ve talked about earlier in terms of innovation, I liked the point he makes in terms of the least of these.
Bill Russell: 27:40 There’s a great story of John Doren boss who was traded before the season, started, traded from the eagles to the saints and he, uh, had to go through a physical and during the fiscal I found he had a heart condition and could play football. And Jeffrey Lori, who’s the owner for the eagles, a great move in terms of the culture, uh, invited him to be an honorary teammate at the superbowl and said if we win, you will get a ring and he is going to get a ring for being a part of that, uh, being a part of that team and just saying that story gives me chills because it’s those kinds of things that really define a culture. It’s, and people see it, they know it, and they know I’m not going to be left behind that this is an organization that cares for everybody within the organization.
Bill Russell: 28:26 And uh, you know, great cultures have a way of communicating that and reinforcing that over and over again. And uh, you know, as a cio, it’s a lot easier to recruit when you have a great culture. Uh, but there’s so many other side benefits to, uh, to spending the time doing it. I’m doing it right and making it happen. So I’m, so thanks for that discussion. We, we could probably spend another hour talking about that will, uh, or sure. Yeah, we really could. And, uh, maybe maybe we’ll do that sometime. So our final segment, we, uh, we highlight our favorite social media posts for the week and I’m going to switch it up on you and the last minute I’m going to highlight the thermian posts that were out there, but, uh, I found an even better one from Elon Musk. He, uh, in the spacecraft that he shot up there, he has a printed circuit boards on the car in deep space and a printed on that circuit board, it says, made on earth by humans. And I found that to be funny, you can check that out onto elan musk’s a, a twitter feed. And so, um, and that’s maybe how we’re going to start identifying things instead of mating countries we’re going to say made on earth as we start to move throughout the galaxy. Uh, what, what do you want to highlight?
Drex DeFord: 29:49 You know, if you think about this, the earth really is a spaceship and um, there’s a bunch of people crowded on this little spaceship and we better take care of the spaceship because it’s the only spaceship we have right now. And thank goodness for guys like musk and bezos and others who are trying to figure out how to make sure we’re not a one spaceship, a group, but made on earth is a, is a pretty cool idea. Um, and by the way, somebody also said something to me that I thought was funny the other day after this launch was star man up there. I don’t know if you needed to hide a body, that would be a really fun and interesting way. Maybe there’s actually somebody in that suit. I’m not sure. My tweet is from Andy Slavitt this week,
Drex DeFord: 30:35 uh, where he announces a new movement called U s of care. Uh, and it’s, it’s being launched. There’s a bunch of people involved. You can look it [email protected] It’s a really interesting kind of approach. Kind of has three main tenants. Uh, every American should have affordable healthcare to all Americans, should be protected from financial devastation due to illness or injury. And that the policies to achieve these aims must be economically responsible and wind political support needed to ensure longterm statements that stability, um, slab it of course has a, has a long history in healthcare and government. And uh, and uh, I think if anybody can, can get a bunch of different people and they have a lot of different people on their board and their advisory group. Uh, it’s interesting to go look at the site. So us care dot or the U, s of Care Dot Org. And it’s certainly something that, uh, everybody in healthcare should at least be aware of as it’s happening right now.
Bill Russell: 31:35 US of care that is a bipartisan group. I took a look at the list of people, pretty good list of people, a couple of side notes about Andy Slavitt. He should really be our hero if you ever get a chance to have a conversation with them, ask him about how he, uh, turned around healthcare.gov. it is a, uh, it is a it project. It just should be a white paper that we all read. It’s, it’s amazing what he did in a very short period of time to sort of turn that around. And uh, the second thing I would say is we’re just watching Andy Slavitt mature in front of us. I know that’s kind of, he went from being very partisan during the healthcare debate. Really moving beyond that and saying, okay, what’s it gonna take for me, uh, to be effective and really molding policy and having an influence.
Bill Russell: 32:27 And I’ve seen him really take away a lot of his, um, a divisive language and really come back to what really matters and what really what’s really important in this argument and who do I need to get around me in order to really move this forward? And this is a great move. So again, if you ever get a chance, ask him about healthcare.gov. I’m sure he’s tired of telling the story, but it’s, it’s a, it’s worth hearing a direct thanks for being on. Um, that’s all for now. You can follow directly on twitter that directs to Ford the rex, the Frd, and meet at the patient cio. And don’t forget to follow the show on twitter at this week in hit and check out our new website at this week in health it. Please come back every Friday for more news commentary from industry influencers. That’s all.
Speaker 3: 33:15 Wow.